“She’ll be sorry.”
The Predator
Most people are familiar with the characteristics of violent men, either by first-hand experience or through news and true crime books and TV shows. We all know what they look like: fearless, callous, thrill- and pleasure seeking guys who take what they want and who get easily frustrated if someone gets in their way. It’s the familiar antisocial person ranging from the neighbourhood thug who gets into fights when he is drunk, to the full-fledged psychopath that entirely lacks empathy and uses other people for money, sex or other benefits.
And the Prey?
People with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) are a completely different breed. Their core features are their desperate need for love and lack of interpersonal skills. They fall head over heels in love with people they don’t know the first thing about and then become disillusioned and deeply resentful when the other person fails to match their fantasies. They are emotionally unstable and vulnerable and they feel very hurt and betrayed when people, as they see it, let them down. They fear being abandoned and often threaten to kill themselves. Another typical behavior is self-harm, cutting or burning themselves.
Borderlines can often come across as poor and misunderstood – perhaps because they genuinely feel that way – and being vulnerable they hardly evoke any fear in others. Their melodramatic gestures are sometimes pathetic or tragic, but again, nothing that will scare anyone. But it should.
Emo
Despite of the soap opera-type behavior found in psychiatric literature, between 25-50 percent of people with borderline are boys and men, and males who are angry, jealous and hateful tend to be dangerous. Women may think these guys, with their frailness and tragic personas are intriguing and good projects for improvement. A typical example of what they may look like comes from the musical genre called Emo. As the name suggests it deals with emotionally intense feeling of romantic nature, often tragic and bitter themes. And like borderlines they are often interested in self-harm and suicide.
But bitterness and hate isn’t just expressed by self-destructive gestures. In the emo lyrics you can often find passages that would suggest violence towards partners as well. Here are some excerpts from one of the more popular emo bands Fall Out Boy’s song Chicago Is So Two Years Ago,
My heart is on my sleeve
Wear it like a bruise or black eye
My badge, my witness
Means that I believed
Every single lie you said
You want apologies
Girl, you might hold your breath
Until your breathing stops forever, forever
the only thing you’ll get
Is this curse on your lips:
I hope they taste of me forever
With every breath I wish your body will be broken again, again
With every breath I wish your body will be broken again, again
With every breath I wish your body will be broken again, again
With every breath I wish your body will be broken again
Lashing Out
While the emo isn’t the only borderline male it seems like a pretty good example. And like the lyrics above suggest, borderline violence isn’t just directed at the self. A study on correlates of personality disorders conducted by clinical psychologist Joshua Miller and colleagues confirms this violent aspect of BPD. They had students fill in self-measures of personality disorders as well as other measure of for instance crime and violence. As expected, they found that crime was most strongly associated with psychopathy (which is a dimensional trait that to some extent can be found in the normal population). Also as expected, borderline was linked to self-harm. But perhaps more surprisingly, borderline was also strongly correlated with intimate partner violence, even more so than for psychopathy and narcissism.
Self-measures may of course be exaggerated, especially when we are talking about people with a taste for drama. But other research confirms that this is for real. One study from 2007 by psychiatrist Donald Black found that around 30 percent of new inmates in Iowa met the criteria for borderline and another study from this year by psychiatrist Marc Schroeder and colleagues, again looking at actual offenders, found a similar pattern with borderline being the second most common personality disorder after antisocial personality disorder. Of offenders who had committed both sexual and non-sexual violent crime half were antisocials and a third were borderlines as compared to third most common category of narcissistic disorder at a mere 3 percent. Given that borderline is rare in the general population, around 1-2 percent, it’s clear that these individuals are very violent.
The Hidden Threat
So it seems the borderline personality is a large and rather hidden threat to women (and probably some men too although women are usually less violent). No one seems to talk about these men. They rarely feature in the media or public debate. Maybe it’s just because they are so fragile and look more like victims than perpetrators. Pointing the finger at these guys may feel like kicking on someone who is already lying down. But they are not victims of anything but their own shaky grip on reality, and excusing them or looking the other way will only make for more violence.
For a more personal and in-depth look at these guys, check out Shanon’s excellent post,
http://strangedaysinthecity.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/boderline-boys-and-6-ways-to-spot-them/
Staffan's Personality Blog 
I can understand the legitimate point you are trying to make with this article, but feel I must point out that you are doing it in a sensationalist and potentially damaging way.
Regarding the sensationalist slant, I won’t go further other than to draw attention to the image you’ve chosen to use at the top, and the connection you draw between harmful male BPD behaviour and Emo subculture (for the record, I am not an ‘Emo’, and also think that the lyrics you quote are completely awful in every conceivable sense). Also, you do use very emotive (no pun intended) words like ‘pathetic’ and ‘tragic’ to describe BPD behaviour.
I completely understand, applaud and empathize with your declared intention to draw attention to the issue of intimate partner violence and other forms of harmful male BPD behaviour (I do have some indirect experience of this myself), since doing so may serve to assist others in avoiding being hurt. However, your article goes beyond this remit.
You seem to be an intelligent person, so I won’t presume to insult your intelligence by telling you that there are always several ways to make the same point (or ‘it ain’t what you say, it’s the way that you say it’ as my old English lit teacher was fond of telling us). It looks like you’ve opted for the sensationalist/potentially damaging way of making your point, which is unfortunate.
Thanks for your comment,
I see your point; this post does offend some by being direct and hard-hitting, maybe even sensational. My rationale for this is that it’s an effective way to break the taboo and the habit of tip toing around this issue.
The response this post has gotten is an indication that I’m right. Women (and some men) are being discouraged and made to feel guilty for just talking about it. And I believe that attitude needs to be confronted with a certain amount of bluntness.
It’s being direct and hard-hitting in a misguided way though, and as such there would be more effective ways of breaking the taboos and raising awareness of the issue, if that was your primary concern.
The main problem I have with this is the explicit connection you draw between harmful male BPD behaviour and emo subculture. For example you state that ‘While the emo isn’t the only borderline male it seems like a pretty good example’. You then go on to state that ‘borderline is rare in the general population, around 1-2%’, and cite a study of inmates in Iowa which found that 30% met the criteria for BPD, so therefore ‘it’s clear that these individuals are very violent’.
Now, if it were the case that ‘the Emo’ is ‘a pretty good example’ of the borderline male, then would it not follow that a significant proportion of the convicted 30% in the studies you mention would be Emos? I can’t say for certain, but I’ll go out on a limb here and guess that they aren’t. I’m perfectly willing to be proved wrong on this point if you have any stats about this.
In short, it looks like you’re demonising Emos, which does detract from the credibility of the piece and isn’t necessary. As far as I (and many others) generally understand it, Emos and certain other subcultures are far more likely to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators of it (not sure if you’re aware of the story behind the SOPHIE campaign, but if not it would be worth a look. Sophie Lancaster and her partner weren’t Emos but would probably be identified as such by some).
You’re talking about people noted for extremely hurtful, problematic and damaging behaviour, and say that Emos provide a ‘typical example of what they may look like’. This is demonising, sensationalist and misguided and will probably be recognised as such by anyone with even the slightest amount of perspicacity. I doubt it will help break any taboos or further any kind of altruistic ends; if it does anything it will most likely just make people hate Emos (and I’d say loads do already).
The thing is, I’m not trying to sort people in good or bad, but point out that some BPDs are dangerous. I used Emos to illustrate how their thinking, similar to BPDs, could translate to violence. That’s not to say that I know that Emos are more violent than others; there is no research on that as far as I know. The murder of Sophie Lancaster is tragic but it doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said.
There are certainly many BPDs who are victims in many ways. But at the end of the day this is a group that is highly overrepresented in prisons for partner violence, and their victims must count too. It’s awfully quiet about that so I said something, maybe too sensational for your taste, but at least I said something.
You say this approach will not help break any taboos, but look at the reaction this post had, a whole lot positive, from people with personal experience. It may not promote altruism, but then again victims of this violence or threat of violence are entitled to personal security. Where is the altruism or empathy for them? I’ve described the problems of BPD in the post and I’m not in any way opposed to them getting help.
It is ironic that you emphasize more the readership, than the actual quality of the information. This article is nothing more than tabloid stigmatism, and honestly you should be ashamed, although I expect you’re not. A lot of likes on a page does not equal accurate or representative information, if anything, it just shows its feeding into others prejudiced ways considering there are a lot of inaccuracies on this page (as a borderline male).
There are a few types of bpd individuals and you represent one subgroup (if that at all). This is not hard hitting accuracies looking to speak the truth, it is tabloid sensationalism based on your bad experiences of one person (ps lack of empathy is not criteria in borderline personality disorder, nor is narcissism, they are individual traits (or antisocial pd).
I just think there is enough stigmatism out there without you presenting this awful and inaccurate portrayal, particularly without facts, you give one name and say studies, but you dont actually give the citations, how many studies has this one person done? is he reputable, and objective? etc. Although you clearly are not, you should be genuinely sickened by this, I know I am.
Ps, im not one for political correctness either, but i present facts, which this didnt.
I emphasize readership because I’ve read the comments. I’m not getting simple-minded hateful responses but stories of personal experiences, often ambivalent to the men in question.
That’s not what you get with a tabloid approach.
As for accuracy, I’ve linked to my sources. You can either tell me what is wrong with them or provide others that contradict it. Just rhetorically asking if they’re any good is not constructive. I’ve provided stats showing these men are extremely overrepresented in jail, and all you did was speculate that emos probably aren’t.
And no, I’m not ashamed. I’ve based it on facts and I got a lot of response – of high quality. I have no reason to be ashamed.
Wow. This article is filled with fear mongering, and flat out rudeness.
“They have bpd. Run as far as you can! ”
The main point of this article is to see signs then run or hide. Your *adding* mental health stigma to an already stigmatized group of peoples.
Your right; some people are dangerous, Some people are unsaveable, but god knows if there’s no one in that bpd person’s life then how are they going to find new values and ideas with which to clash with their own, hopefully leading to care and recovery down the road even if it is just for that person’s self.
I guess the TL;DR is that bpd sufferers are just like the larger population of ‘normal’people that they live within. There’s a few dangerous ones but I think it’s false to assume all bpd sufferers are dangerous.
Hi,
Fear mongering it’s not. We are talking about men who make up around 1 percent of the population and 30 percent of the prison population. And it’s largely due to sexual and violent crime. They are almost on level with psychopaths – that’s not “a few dangerous ones.” And sexual and violent crime scars people for life, something that many could have avoided if they had been exposed to a little more of what you call fear mongering.
BPDs do get help, there is a diagnosis, there is treatment and research to improve their lives. But how much effort is put into helping their victims? I think we should help both BPDs and their victims. But any real help is based on knowledge, research and openly about it – not sweeping it under the rug out of misplaced concerns about stigmatization.
Btw, if you’re interested in this topic you should check out the comments below. There are plenty of interesting reflections and observations there.
How can one put this politely. As ridiculous as this sounds it may help.
If I had a condition where I walked around spitting in peoples faces and then punching them in the stomach and if this condition made me feel ashamed yet I had very little control over it ALSO if most everyone I became intimate with was being spit on and punched in the stomach frequently by me …
I’d imagine that even a borderline individual would suggest their “friend” or “loved one” avoid me at all costs.
Point being the condition is reckless and destructive. Unfortunately borderlines must also be avoided much like someone who walks around spitting on people and punching them in the stomach.
Yes I realize that in their minds they “don’t mean it” or they’re “very sorry” however those who suffer through them deserve understanding as well.
Now let me take this one step further. This is the absolute truth from my point of view and very real personal experiences:
Believe it or not I would rather be spit on and punched in the stomach than put through the literal Hell my borderlines have put me through in this lifetime.
In fact being spit on and punched in the stomach sounds like a walk in the park!! as compared to what the borderlines in my life have put me through.
So to wrap it up if you think someone who walks around spitting in peoples faces and punching them in the stomach is someone to be avoided? Guess what true blue Borderlines have someone like that beat in the destroying of other peoples lives department.
So absolutely positively YES avoid borderlines until they have had plenty of therapy and their therapist can absolutely assure you they are now safe for intimate human interaction.
Just my two cents … do with it what you will.
This so called material you use in this post is so thin that it doesn’t do shit for your stigmatizing comb-over post.
For instance you state Borderlines make about 30% of prison population. You also state that these are Mostly violent and sexual crimes.. Well I would like to know What kind of prison that is, because the overall majority of crimes in general is drug related and other indulging non-violente crimes. If you were right, then actually All of the violente crime is commited by borderlines, that leaves the anti-social ones (which actually have crime as a criteria for theire diagnozes..) And all the others non-disturbed to the pity crimes..
You have just anounced male BPDs the worst breed existing!
Congratulation on that one!
But of course you are way off here. There is no statistics or studies supporting this level of anti-social behaviour in male BPDs at all. Sure you’re right on aggression beeing a mechanism in some BPD behaviour. But this rarely becomes violent, and that the violence also suggested as being sexual is just something you have taken out of your thin air. It is simply not true.
Its evidented that 10% of BPDs achieves killing them self. Thats why its put “suicidal thoughts, behaviour or risk” in the diagnostic criterias.
Had violence or sexual predatory
been just as commen, it would be mentioned in some form there. It isnt. And neither are there other facts that substancuate your wildly stigmatizing post.
BPDs are not the easiest people to commit to or live with… But most of us do have both a concience and empathy for others. Often Even enhanced to unhealthy levels. Both being ultimatly emotional “brakes” that become limits for our aggression (as in every body else.. Perhaps excluding the anti-social ones..)
Sure, temper tantrums are no stranger to BPDs and theire loved ones.. Throwing things around, suggesting self harm.. Or beeing a bit verbalizing unconstructive, But its rare it becomes violent.
These post should therefore introduce the differently. This is not Even loosly connected to BPD traits.
Not all are prone to killing or harming someone to that degree but as a survivor of someone with BP I can say this article has a lot of weight and have worked with both male and female patients. My ex effected my life so much that I am back in school getting a degree to help other victims. They are destructive mostly to themselves but to others as well.
It’s not the job of your partner or spouse…or children or friends to “fix” you. It is a breach of boundaries when you expect them to do so.
People with BPD routinely breach social boundaries, expecting their children to be their parents and others to be their saviors. Stop it.
Just for general knowledge – can you provide your qualifications and experience with borderline patients. The internet is made up of many many “armchair shrinks” who really have no clue what they are discussing and contribute to a culture of fear and stigmatize people who are already suffering from a difficult disorder.
So what degrees do you have? How many patients do you see? How long have you been in practice? What is your experience with DBT and group therapy?
I’m no expert but rely on the evidence presented and linked in the text above. But if you want to appeal to authority rather than evidence then know that in science evidence is the only authority.
Evidence schmevidence! Start by looking up the word evidence in a dictionary. The fact that a person has a diagnosis of BPD is not evidence of the person actually having BPD. The fact that someone displays the symptoms of BPD is not evidence that they have BPD. The fact that a man punched his wife in the face is not evidence of him being mentally ill, nor is it evidence of him being a bad person, nor is it even evidence of him being a violent person.
It is not even worth mentioning the “evidence” you refer to if you are not going to validate it by also digging up “evidence” of the percentage of domestically violent men who are personality disordered AND the percentage of domestically violent men who are denounced, tried, found guilty and imprisoned for domestic violence (it is safe to assume only a tiny minority of the entire domestic abuser population given that there are practically no women who have not been a victim of domestic violence by age 40 – which following your logic would be evidence that there are hardly no men who don’t practice domestic violence).
The fact that the construct of BPD exists and is used in the medical field to diagnose and treat people doesn’t mean that BPD, such as described by the DSM, actually exists, and if it does exist, it doesn’t mean that it really is such as the DSM describes it. You are forgetting (or refusing to admit?) that psychology and psychiatry are extremely subjective domains.
The people who diagnose mental health conditions are people. They are also individuals. People make mistakes and people, even the smartest and healthiest, are biased. A large proportion of psychologists and psychiatrists were motivated in choosing those professions because they were directly impacted by mental health conditions in those close to them at some point of their own lives. Bias number one. They are victims/survivors of abuse and as such have had and still may have their own mental health issues stemming from that. Bias number two. ALL of the psychiatrists/psychologists I have met in my private life and not as part of intervention/treatment have their personal history of abuse stemming from mental health conditions. The most disordered and dysfunctional person I know has a sibling who is an eminent psychologist (brought up in the same nasty environment) – that psychologist has no clue that their sibling is disordered and dysfunctional. The most famous researchers of psychology in human history were motivated by their personal history in their professional endeavors. An example among many, Freud had serious mommy issues. He was also criticized throughout his career and is still criticized to this day because it is apparent that his theories were strongly colored by his personal issues, which is a big part of the reason why he never was satisfied with his own theories and kept reviewing them until his very last breath. But you wouldn’t know that because in your quest for pseudo-expertise, you apparently skipped all of the fundamental literature. You are apparently so preoccupied with the state of current research that you have no knowledge of the historical work and theories the current research is borne of, and thus insensitive to the number of times someone was dead wrong and influenced psychological research and theory for decades to come to evolve in a horribly mistaken direction. In Freud’s time, homosexuality was a mental disease. Today, it is a sexual orientation. So which is it?
So, your use of the word evidence in the current context is clumsy at best.
But where I personally find you discredit yourself in a spectacular manner is when you say that because a REPORTED 30% of the domestic violence perpetrators imprisoned REPORTEDLY have BPD, we can conclude that men who have BPD are VERY violent (your exact words). How you can equate a high rate of BPD sufferers with BPD sufferers being VERY violent defies any logic. You might say that a high rate of domestic violence offenders suffering from BPD means that a high rate of BPD sufferers are violent. You might say that a significantly higher percentage of BPD sufferers are violent compared to the general population. But there is no way you can attest to the degree of violence of BPD sufferers simply from the fact that they REPORTEDLY make up a significant portion of the domestic violence offender prison population.
I am not qualified to give advice as my own knowledge in the greater scheme of things is limited. But I would like to stress that without appropriately developed logic and reasoning skills, anything you might say about topics so complex and subjective as the one you are tackling here is opinion at best, and you would be well advised to present it as such.
None of what you refer to is evidence. None of what you say is fact. Let’s just be clear on that.
Thanks for your comment.
Although it’s hard to make out exactly what your arguments are. The issue of generalization, however, depends on how you interpret the evidence. I specifically mentioned the correlation with intimate partner violence and the large percentage of convicts who meet the criteria for BPD. This evidence suggest that this is a violent category of people, but it does not suggest 100% are violent.
The rest, as I said, is hard to grasp. A man punching his wife in the face is not evidence of him being violent? Sure, there are rare cases of self-defence, but women are not very dangerous so I’d say it’s a pretty strong indication.
I am very familiar with Joshua Miller’s work. My opinion of him as a researcher and of his work is that both are rigorous and have much scientific integrity. Which brings me to my second point in reference to your comment above.
If you were to ask Joshua Miller how the results of his work should be interpreted, I would be very surprised if he said that it is evidence or fact and that it can be relied upon in diagnosing and treating BPD. Knowing him and his work, it is much more likely that he would say that the only real facts are that the portion of the prison population he refers to have BPD diagnoses, not that they actually HAVE BPD, and that his result of 30% applies only to a relatively small sample of the prison population at the time of measuring, and as such is not representative of the whole. With his research, he is not establishing the link between domestic violence and BPD – he is merely asking the question whether there is such a link. He is not answering questions, he is asking them.
He would likely draw no conclusion based on his work, but rather merely suggest further research. That is what a researcher who has scientific integrity does.
Joshua Miller would likely be the first to correct your statement: “know that in science evidence is the only authority”. This is lightyears away from the truth. Look up the term “scientific methodology” and you will discover basic scientific concepts such as theory, hypothesis, objectivity and the very important notion that if a hypothesis cannot be verified and if the phenomenon resulting from a hypothesis cannot be reproduced, then it remains hypothesis, and it follows that calling a hypothesis evidence or fact violates the basic principles of science.
If you read enough of Joshua Mille’s work, you will notice that he readily admits that BPD and NPD are very difficult to diagnose, that many people who have a diagnosis of either have neither and that many people who have either don’t have the corresponding diagnosis. He would likely be the first to call attention to the fact that the data he works with is not fully reliable because it comes from purely subjective sources. Which is why he draws no conclusion of his own work but rather uses it to merely point to future research, the point of which is in part to find more reliable data and scientifically reliable ways to work with it so that we can in the hopefully near future be in a position to finally draw actual conclusions, all with the intention of finding ways to help the victims of BPD.
How can Joshua Miller consciously not be in a position to draw conclusions while you can?
Your making your case based on what you believe what Miller would say, given that your supposedly “very familiar” with his work. And yet, the 30% figure is not from his study – it’s from that of Donald Black. If you want to lean on him, you should get some quotes and link some sources. Neither of us can read minds.
Staffan’s simply repeating what the experts have to say and write. I’ve yet to see him claim he’s an expert in any way, shape or form.
He’s offering people some valuable information that may help them avoid the awful experience that is dealing with a true borderline personality.
Thank you Staffan! We appreciate you helping bring this subject to light. The victims of these people deserve advocates as well.
We often expect the victims to rise above while the emotionally challenged receive the majority of the empathy.
Thank you Staffan keep up the good work!
Out of a relationship with a borderline man and it was a freak show. He has messed up his children and now his grandchildren because he will not get help. Never told me about his diagnosis, I found out by accident as he screwed up giving me his medical records to review.
My advice to anyone in an abusive borderline relationship, R-U-N!
This sick twisted abuser called the cops on me in the end as I was waiting to move into an apartment.
Honestly, as far as I’m concerned if they refuse help they should be placed on a rocket and relocated to Mars.
All this one does is repeat the same cycles. I am so tired of hearing about their “illness”. They make others I’ll, but that doesn’t seem to matter.
Thanks for your comment, lots of other have commented above sharing similar experiences which you may found interesting.
I can understand you being tired of hearing about their “illness.” Regardless of intentions, psychiatry has a way of shifting responsibility from abuser to victim in this case. The way I see it is they are either incompetent and should be treated or they are competent and responsible for their own actions. Either way, their partners are not responsible and have every reason to leave if they become abusive.
I was idolized in the beginning, was told he was going through a divorce, he swore on his Son’s life he was leaving his wife, he begged me not to give up on him. He would call me several times a day and if I didn’t pick up, I received several texts asking me what he did wrong and begging me to respond. I started to push him away because I had a hard time with him telling me he loved me more then anything and anyone in this world. Our relationship consists of texting and phone calls, a few day trips and many walks. No sex! He became angry when I wanted to end it because I was feeling guilty and told him this wasn’t fair to me. He would lash out at me through texts calling me names, evil bitch, wishing death on me and letting me know that I will be surrounded by devil souls. Many times he would pray I have the worst in life. It got worse when he started to scare me by telling me he was going to kill himself.
Thanks for sharing. By now, I think the comments here are of more value than the original post.
Threatening to kill themselves seems fairly common, and it probably works too. It seems women are more prone to guilt than men, and some guys become experts at exploiting this weakness. Some even go through with it as a deranged way of getting the last word.
If he in fact does kill himself, always remember that this is a result of his personality, that others of his type have done this before. It doesn’t have anything to do with you. It’s a tragedy, but it’s his personal tragedy. Which may deserve pity, but never any feelings of guilt.
You’re not alone. One of mine attempted suicide once in order to control me (my god what a nightmarish scenario that was) and then went to a mental institution on two separate occasions while we were together.
Again in order to try and control me. All of it to keep me from leaving.
We were only together for 2 years! That’s quite a bit of drama in 2 years wouldn’t you agree?
No on else I’ve ever been with has done those type of things. Of course it was somehow all my fault (in their mind).
They’re messed up. RUN! Run for your life. Borderlines are dangerous. Don’t fall for the poor me tactics they use. Just get away.
Run and get as far away as you possibly can from them. Nothing and I mean nothing good will come out of that type of relationship. Not now and especially not in the long run.
Once your gone if possible go ‘no contact’ it’s the best solution I’ve found for getting rid of them permanently.
They will stick to you like super glue if you don’t. They will hunt you down for more drama. Get yourself out of their mind they are toxic even from a distance.
Human demons. No kidding. Don’t listen to the borderlines here on this board attempting to downplay it all. They are disconnected, emotionally ill and oblivious.
Sorry but it’s true. They will suck the life force out of you emotionally and physically.
You should speak to a therapist about your experience instead of building up only a negative image for BPDers for everyone to see online. Like its not already fucking stigmatised.
Oh and btw, no doubt you have your own issues for ending up in a relationship with such an undeveloped person.
(seeing someone going through a divorce, lol, that’s stupid of you)
Deal with your own loneliness+, before you speak bad about a situation you were equally responsible for. It takes two to tango. (i’m not ignoring what you went through in the least – see the first thing I said!)
Lex, I can somewhat agree with you on your first paragraph. But in the last two, what you are talking about is the dependent-codependent dance. You use the same type of moral relativism that abusive people use to jusifies their behavior. Codependecy is a hell of a disease too, but they don’t abuse people on a regular basis as the dependents do.
I totally agree that the stigma of all personality disorders must go away, a fine day. Just because people have various disorders doesn’t mean that they are bad and abusive. I think that it is the fear of the stigma that eventually turn some of them into abusive behavior i order to try conceal their disease from the public, to blame it on the abused, the codependents.
It doesn’t take two to tango. Not when one person is pathological. Bpd is one of the cluster b types with the other party not knowing how bpd manifests itself until the damage is done. Blame storming, histrionics, threatening to harm self and others…. etc. Relationships with a cluster b type is hell on earth.
This has been therapeutic. I appreciate being given the ability to rant online versus strangling the previous borderlines in my life to death.
I once felt immense empathy for those suffering from cluster B PDs. Being raised in a family with those who suffered from them I knew exactly why they became that way.
However suffering through the family was another story altogether.
Going out into the world as an adult I felt it was my responsibility to NOT be like those people. A responsibility to myself and especially to all the other innocent human beings in the world who had absolutely nothing to do with that upbringing.
I’ve come to this blog multiple times and ranted about the abuse. I stick to my guns when saying BPD individuals are NOT your friend. They are NOT your loved one.
They thrive on your pain. They want you to feel as awful as they do.
They will wish ill or even death upon you with intensity. They will steal from you in multiple ways. They will attempt to control you with threats of violence and suicide. They will use your children against you in ways that only evil could comprehend.
The list goes on and on of what those with true BPD will do to you.
They feel no real remorse. Lying is their first language (not second) and they do not care about how any of this effects you.
There are BPD liars here on this blog as we speak.
Attempting to garner sympathy while shaming others. Pretending as if they can comprehend the points being made. Basically seeking attention all while covertly trying to sabotage what the victims here are legitimately feeling.
As usual. Nothing new there.
In other words you as a victim of these people aren’t even allowed to come here online to get away from them. Their selfish, hate filled, shame based ill will toward other human beings and themselves seeps through.
These are severely mentally ill people (don’t let anyone tell you otherwise). They should NOT be in relationships. They should not have children. They need to be left alone and avoided completely until they are cured (?) by a professional.
Most of them shouldn’t even be on the streets. They should be monitored in an institution until they are ready to make a come back into society. Which is exactly what they used to do with them.
Harsh? I think not.
Not considering the emotional and physical atrocities they put families through on a daily basis. Not considering the heartless crimes they commit. Not considering their inability to truly empathize with others of the human race.
That’s a very dangerous condition to have. It needs to be monitored.
The therapists I’ve dealt with personally want absolutely nothing to do with them. I’ve had close relationships with more than one therapist and they have admitted to this in no uncertain terms.
I’m a firm advocate for the victims!
I feel no remorse for BPD sufferers. I support the victims wholeheartedly and we absolutely need more people who are willing to do so.
I’ve chosen sides and mine will be with the victims thank you very much.
At this point I firmly believe BPD is a form of psychopathy. I’d imagine it fits in there somewhere on a broad spectrum. I’ve dealt with them ,in real life, from the day I was born.
There has been no evidence to indicate otherwise in MY personal experience.
As a victim you must RUN. Get away and do not look back. They will destroy your life, they will ruin your children, they will even do such things as: run your loved ones over with a car while drunk and then feel sorry for themselves!
They do it all the time. Think I’m kidding? Do your research.
They will leave you feeling like an empty shell (if they don’t kill you first). Yes plenty of those with BPD have murdered those closest to them and others.
Not just themselves.
They feed like sharks on those with a conscience. They are complete liars when they consistently claim they aren’t aware of what they’re doing.
They’re like part time sociopaths behind closed doors and the rest is just an act. Nothing less. Only those with less severe versions of the condition are capable of being helped.
To top it all off once they’re done wreaking havoc on the human race (because they’re too old and tired to keep it up) the vast majority of them simply fade away into the sunset.
Feeling sorry for no one but themselves.
So if you’re currently seeking a worthy cause. If you feel like you would like to donate your time toward something worthwhile?
Support the VICTIMS of those with BPD! Whenever and wherever possible. God knows they need and deserve it.
You’re always welcome : )
I keep telling people to read the comments here as they offer a lot of insights. I just wish there was some online resource dedicated to this problem, given how many people are affected by it. But I guess it’s sensitive; there is an obvious risk of being branded a hater and a bigot just for telling your story.
Nothing wrong with being a hater, its spreading that hate and not expecting backlash, is the problem.
If you kiss more peoples ass than you piss off, you’re not being yourself.
So whilst I can see your “one sidedness” that’s because i’m an ENTP and see all the angles, I do appreciate the post though. Especially because we don’t sort or face problems if we’re all being politically correct…
I feel for you because you’ve completely given up on human potential to change/grow.
I strongly dislike most people, however I accept they are people all the same, the same suffering son of a bitch, like the rest of us, living/surviving on the time we have.
You shouldn’t call us all liars because some of us have it from emotional abuse being constantly falsely accused, blamed and punished, so now our default is TOO HONEST.
So, fuck you for saying that 🙂
It’s not worth it to explain why you are so in the wrong (morally and logically).
You speak of Bpd’s as if they were predators. Heartless monsters who Enjoy making others suffer. You are wrong. The group you are talking about is the anti social personality disturbed.. Or to some degree Bpd’s with strong anti-social traits.
Where do you come up With this kinds of BS? It seems you are surrounded by bad people. I sympathize with that… But this is probably more complexed than just blame the behaviour on BPD.
Remember that the bpd diagnosis is Often cunningly displayed by far more sinister personalities.
BPD’s Can of course be abusers, blamers and exploiders. But rarely in that magnitude you are displaying.
We are not heartless in my experince.
I come up with from research which is linked in the post. And plenty of commentators have shared their personal experiences too. That’s where it comes from.
The magnitude of the problem is reflected in the amount of people with this diagnos in prison for partner violence. Not everyone, but clearly this is common, even though the silence surrounding this problem may give the appearance that there is no problem at all. That’s why I wrote this post.
No you all hate to be called on the carpet. Most Borders are unable to admit that they are screwed up. My ex knew he had serious issues but it hurt too much to admit that because that would mean he would literally loose his mind and everyone around him.
Thank you
Wow! Thank you. I oscillate between love/sympathy and fear/disgust for a male BPD in my life. Every time I feel one way, he does something(s) that inexplicably lead to the other. Sad for him and me. The love I feel is eroding into to some obligatory need to stand by him for reasons that don’t feel legitimate or natural, rather, forced and devoid of depth. Then I realize his feelings that he emotes with gusto, whether good or bad, seem contrived or mimicked. And I wonder who is this person and how is my genuine love transformed into his version. Five years and he now exhibits signs of increasing schizophrenia. I analyze it to avoid the hurt. I think he knows something is wrong with him and perhaps even why. I hope he gets help. But, I don’t think it can be from me anymore.
Thanks for your comment. As I said to other comments, there is something genuinely appealing about these guys too, and they do suffer a lot. It’s not like psychopaths who once you see through them are easy to leave. But this is not to say love will fix them, it’s likely to do the opposite if it translates to a uncritical loyalty.
It should also be noted that schizophrenics are much more violent than the average person, something that is also hushed up in a way similar to that of BPDS.
It seems to me the that the only thing you’ve succeeded in doing with this article is providing a safe haven of negative stigma and ignorance to a select few who have had issues with someone with BPD. You use “facts” from a single study in Iowa to speak for an entire group of people? You think you’re entitled to anything because you “survived” someone with BPD? Listen kiddo, assholes literally come in all shapes and sizes from all walks of life. You cannot pin the fact that you had an unsuccessful relationship with someone with BPD, on BPD itself. Your issue lies with your less than fantastic partners (which, given then integrity of this article is easy to see why you ended up with them), not with BPD. You merely picked an assholevwho happens to have BPD. How do I know this you ask? Because for some afflicted with BPD, such as myself, every day is a testament to willpower. Some have more than others. You picked a BPD “weakling” and are now using that as an example to generalize others. The problem, buddy, lies not in your BPD partners, but with yourself. And your inability to be so defined personally, that you let others affect you negatively. You want to know why there is a shortage of support for the “victims” of partners with BPD? Because nobody ever received an applause for being the one to hit the dirt. Simply put, no one cares about your problems. You do what you need to to make sure YOU are happy. Take control for YOU. Your BPD partner didn’t make you feel bad. YOU DID. You cannot blame them. Just as people with BPD cannot blame the disorder. Food for thought. Stop throwing stones from a glass house. Namaste.
Thanks for your comment.
But I can’t see how “a select few” would have a problem with violent BPDs if prisons are so full of them – specifically convicted of intimate partner violence. And it’s three studies, btw, not one single. But if you can find at least one study contradicting my claims, I’d be interested in reading it.
Assholes do come in different shapes and sizes, I agree completely. Psychopaths are way worse than BPDs if you look at the bigger picture. Then you have everyday assholes who are corrupt, neglectful etc, much of which isn’t even illegal. But plenty of BPDs are assholes when they physically and mentally abuse their partners.
When you say,
“Your BPD partner didn’t make you feel bad. YOU DID. You cannot blame them,”
your excusing violent and mental abuse on a level that many BPDs go to jail for, while blaming the victims. If you can’t understand that this behavior is wrong then I don’t know what more I can say.
You’re not even making any sense.
Move along. People who possess REAL strength, some emotional intelligence and a conscience are actually attempting to have rational discussions here.
Something you obviously do not understand or even care to understand.
Just like all the others with your condition you consistently blame the victims. How convenient!
Unfortunately your weakness is showing. Better go cover that up with some primal rage, intense denial and a pseudo macho posturing or two.
I’m sure you’ve mastered them all.
Nobodies interested in your archaic beliefs and incapacity for healthy human emotion.
By the way when A BPD disordered individual physically hurts your children ,in multiple ways, what do you suggest that victimized parent feel?
When a BPD disordered individual sabotages their spouses work life, their family life or even murders their loved one(s).
How do you suggest that victim feel?
Shall I carry on with the one thousand and one other ways BPD individuals wreak serious havoc on innocent human beings?
Keep walking. You’ve obviously lived a very sheltered life buddy. Your ‘one size fits all’ approach is humorous at best and disturbing overall.
You’re not fooling anyone. You can take that grade school mentality somewhere else.
To be honest, I think you are in a state of projection here. A total blame storm on an opponent, with little real arguments about the issue.
Oh my god- this is just CRAP.
These people are not only already dealing with a HUGE degree of stigma, but they are victims themselves- which is how they ended up this way. Further BPDs (of which I am one) have a GREAT recovery rate- if they don’t don’t kill themselves first (since about 10% do). The chances of a BPD hurting anyone other than themselves is negligible.
I’m sure the writer speaks from personal experience, and that’s unfortunate that they had to deal with whatever that consisted of, but to make such damaging and sweeping general statements is just irresponsible, and a little mean (though I can see where your personal experiences might lead you to feel justified in saying such things).
I’m probably BPD and my GFs initials are E.M.O lol.
Theres two types of dangerous, out of control dangerous and can be dangerous if choose to be. I’m the latter, I have self control and have always destroyed stuff, not attacked people.
The former though, is the most dangerous. Friend of the family Wife is clearly BPD and everyone is afraid of her (terrified), i’m not, I just want to punch her in the face for how she acts towards and treats people). Ofc when I’m not reacting I want to try and help her because I do understand. (ASD+BPD=interesting combo)
I’m just posting this to say,
Not all BPD men are physically dangerous, just as not all BPD women are whores.
I’m actually very emotionally sensitive for a male (or even female) as well. For example Hearing babies cry makes me overwhelmingly upset. (tears)
The people I do want to hurt are people that damage(including /especially traumatise) thers and honestly the only reason I don’t is because of the law.
It seems female BPD are more likely to manipulate. I never manipulate I HATE it!
Your post is okay I guess, you do only show one side though and that is wrong.
I would never hurt my GF (and best friend) I’m far more likely to self destruct if I lose presence of conscious mind under the mountain of overwhelming emotion.
I am a rage-o-holic, but its directed at people that are bad people and I refuse and possibly cant stop myself. I mean, how can anyone walk away or not say something, seeing or hearing someone getting hurt /bullied and so on. I hate people who do nothing just because “reacting like I do is uncivilised and not mature” Its fucking disgusting!!!
If I flip at someone I love and care about or can see someone is scared, I can and do stop myself.
I am a troll, although retired, I was a skilled troll and not those bullshit bullies who use it as an excuse to bully!
I have frequently said to people “I’d kill you for making that rape/child abuse joke if I could” and I never get in trouble for saying it because everyone knows i’m right and they stop with that shit, because they can see in my rage’s firey reflection, how much of an effect what they’re saying on others and wrongness they’re actually saying.
Watching: “John Doe: Vigilante” made me cycle with tears and rage throughout the entire fucking film.
My psychiatrist thinks how I react when I decimate bullying abusive trolls is “wrong” saying I need to be careful to not be seen as a bully. Clearly he doesn’t understand and additionally won’t accept, extreme is need to make a change against the extreme generations. I’m all to well aware of bullying.
So in short, BPD males aren’t all bad. However I wish others could be more sensitive to others including when around me.
Its just the male stereotype which stops us from expressing our sensitive side and showing vulnerability.
However, aint no motherfucker telling me who I can and cannot be, hehe. So i’ll rage if i’m upset and bawl tears if I damn well feel like it!
I’m anti-antisocial, but also pretty asocial what with most of humanity being like.
Once upon a time I was called Sociopath a few times, that wasn’t the case exactly, I was just severly detached from my emotions and in “problem solving no nonsense frustrating mode”. I’ve since started reconnecting and opening up.
I’d say BPDers are only a threat if they lack self awareness.
Btw, ive been to prison, at 16 when I was on ultimate self destruct. You really shouldn’t just use data when you don’t actually have experience with such a group of people. I actually met some nice (but messed up) people in there. So drop it with your prison population BPD % and crime types in prison, cause you only “know ” what you’ve read!
Im a male in my 20s I just found out two days ago I have borderline. I havent been diagnosed but ive done alot of research and every description and symptom i have found fits me. I have been diagnosed with bipolar depression. I understand the need to help victims because I know firsthand the pain we cause. I have hurt several partners throughout the relationship and even more after they leave. I have so much regret at such an early age and up until i discovered I had this illness i didnt know why i did these things to people. If you dont have borderline you cannot understand what it is like. It is a living hell Its like you have a monster living inside of you that you cant control and that doesnt want you or others to be happy. The victims dont deserve what we have done but I just dont understand why God put people like me on this earth. I didnt ask to be this way and have tried to change but its almost like its second nature. Like no matter how much I try to be a good decent human being the evil always comes out and ruins everything. I do my best to control it and let the good that people see in me shine through but it never fails. Every relationship some friendships i mess up without even realising what im doing until they want absolutely nothing to do with me and I am left feeling a mountain of regret and asking myself why did i say that or do that. I was going to kill myself last november after seeing my dad one last time not even conscious because of being sedated for alcohlism. At the time i didnt know i was borderline but I knew something was wrong with me and I hated myself and didnt want to hurt anyone else. When i came back from seeing my dad I met this amazing girl and we just hung out a couple times and soon after became a couple. I thought i could change and this time would be different and I could build with someone and travel, start a family, grow old together no different than anybody else. I just wanted to be happy and have someone to enjoy life with so I decided to give life another shot. It started off great those first few months were some of the best times of my life. She told me i was the love of her life. Soon the same pattern occured I couldnt control it. Its like another person took over and i couldnt do anything but sit back and watch and try to pick up the pieces after the demon broke her down and made her cry. I tried so hard to change but it continued. I ridiculed her for her past and made her feel so low, I controlled and manipulated her, I became incredibly insecure and jealous of her talking to other male friends. After six months i was going to kill myself because i saw what i was doing in hindsight to her and didnt want to hurt her. She told me she couldnt loose me and told my family.I promised everyone i wouldnt do it. She stayed but it continued and she finally got sick of it and left. This is when i became truly despicable. I threatened to expose private photos of her and then felt sorry afterwards so sorry for everything i did I told her i let a guy who catfished me as posing as a female until we met up give me oral a couple years back and I didnt even know why i did it. She was upset and shocked and mad because I judged her and ridiculed her past every chance i got. She told me she hated my guts and to leave her alone. I basically haraseed her and she changed her number. I was in a rage and continued to harass her and threatened to expose pics via email. After i got out this rage i felt ashamed and told her i was going to kill myself. She tried to reassure me i was a good person and to keep living but still wanted nothing to do with me. I entered a rage again and found her new number and harrased her again. She had a Marshall contact me but the demon didnt care i continued again. She changed her number again and i threatened via email to give her social to a identity thief. She said i deceived her about who i was and that i am despicable. I agree with her i am but I dont want to be that person. I wish i could be normal and just live a happy life and be decent and just be whatever people see in me before they meet the monster but i cant this illness doesnt care it just wants to destroy. I just want to say we dont want to be what we are. I didnt choose to be like this. God or whoever created us made me this way. I hate myself so much for what I’ve done to people and to myself. I just wanted to be happy but that’s just a dream for people like me. The only reason I havent killed myself is because the promise I made my mom and I dont want to hurt her because she has been through alot. I really am disgusted with myself and my actions im done trying to beat this monster. Im not going to hurt anyone else im going to do what is best and kill myself on December 6th 2015. I just have to tie up some loose ends and say goodbyes. We are monsters but we dont choose to be it is just the hand we’ve been dealt. If God exists I hope ill get to ask him why me. To all the victims I apologize on behalf of all borderlines for the misery we put you through. You dont deserve it.
Thanks for your reply. It’s very sad to hear your story and I hope you will reconsider your decision to end your life.
You’ve done some bad things, yes, but you will not undo that by killing yourself, and I doubt many victims would want you to do it either, even if they want to keep a safe distance.
I understand that you’re desperate, not seeing an end to your problems, but keep in mind that there are mental health workers who can help. And you are still in your 20s – impulsivity decreases with age. With time you will act less on your impulses and be able to make better decisions, have better relationships. Things will become better.
And you’re not a monster. You would not have written this if you were. It seems more like sensitive people, especially men I think, often have a mean streak. It can be very destructive and take over your life completely – but it’s still just a small part of who you really are. Judging by your comment you are person with capacity for love and a wish to do the right thing. That mean streak gets in the way and it makes you hurt people, but if you can find a way to fight it and reach your true potential, you could be happy and make others happy too.
If there is a God he must have created you for a reason, and that reason can’t be for you to simply undo his creation. I don’t know you but just reading this hurts. And it must surely hurt many people around you infinitely more. The best apology you could give your victims is to find help and better yourself. Others have done it, and as I mentioned earlier, impulsive behavior is a big part of the problem (we all have dark thoughts) but that decreases with age. Time is on your side. So please don’t give up on yourself. I wish you all the best.
Reblogged this on J.M.M. Wheeler and commented:
malignant narcissist borderline, yes
Agreed.
There have been two episodes of Criminal Minds, a show I love and respect, that have addressed the borderline person. Unfortunately, both were made into nothing less than monsters. One had an elaborate set up where he would make others stab him and him stab them. The second was the son of a one time film star who evolved into murdering women, cutting their lips off and putting them on his dead mother.
In my opinion, a show that is so widely watched needs to be more careful when dealing with conditions such as the borderline individual, who although can become violent, turn the majority of their violence at themselves. I am a male with BPD and have never laid a hand on anyone with the intent to harm. I find the information in Criminal Minds damaging both in its insinuations that borderlines are outwardly violent, dangerous people, and by making borderline patients feel more isolated, more worthless and gives the idea that they should punish themselves.
The way that those two episodes were handelled was rather irresponsible and if anything, simply caused more damage than education.
Yes, you’d think it should be possible to make an interesting story out of the real facts, at least in the case of BPD, which has a lot of internal and external conflicts to make dramatic plots from. Unfortunately producers of TV and film often underestimate the audience and assume they can’t handle such complexity.
There’s far more angry, jealous, violent men. Girls usually tend to be logical and hold back because they aren’t allowed to express feelings at all.
I think you may be confusing cause and effect. It’s socially more acceptable yes, but why is that? If it was purely a social arrangement we’d see more cross-cultural variation. More likely, sex differences are biological in origin and they set the standards for what is acceptable.
It is known that when people with BPD feel guilty, they seek relief from their suffering by engaging in more harmful behaviour (self or else) which turns into a habit over the years. Therefore the declared intention behind the chosen tone of the article defeat its objective.
My intention was to describe the problem of violent male BPDs as this is clearly not something many people want to talk about. Note that this silence hasn’t made the problem go away, it only puts other people at risk. There are many potential ways of helping these men, but I’m certain that hushing it up is not one of them.
Feel free to browse the comment section for more details.
i am male with BPD and I am the one who has been beaten up by a women partner and I am the one who have got into physical fights to protect women and men I did not even know. Never been violent but to myself, This article might be using scientific facts albeit in a highly manipulative, incorrect and stigmatising manner.
Thanks for you comment. I don’t think I give an incorrect picture though. More like the bigger picture. Male BPDs wouldn’t get convicted of intimate partner violence to the degree they do if they weren’t on the average more violent.
BPD sucks. I don’t know what’s going on in reality half the time and I can’t be close to anyone. Even worse assholes on the internet keep painting this picture of me as a dangerous threat and writing some truly hateful things that resemble the lack of empathy demonstrated by psychopaths more than just a little. No one chooses to have mental illness and probably everybody would like to be easy to love and feel secure in their relationships instead of you know perpetual self loathing, insecurity, and loneliness.
By the way many of us actually are victims. A very large percentage of the BPD afflicted suffered serious abuse as children.
It’s the complete one-sidedness of MSM that prompts a counter reaction on the internet. This is not to say BPDs lack empathy, not even the ones doing time, or that they aren’t victims themselves. But the at the end of the day, some BPDs are dangerous and hushing it up is just going to create more victims.
To start, I am a Male with BPD.
Honestly, I can’t help but find this offensive. I have never physically harmed anyone other than myself and the stigmatism that you’re encouraging here is part of the reason why I have attempted suicide several times.
I have vowed to never have children or pets because of my disorder and it can be hard at times for me to hold down any sort of functional relationship, but I make any partner I attempt to have fully aware of my disorder and my actions that come along with it. I have told all my partners that if my disorder is too much that they can leave me at any time, guilt free, because I will understand. That being said, it is not my fault that I have this condition and it is a result of many years of physical and verbal abuse by many different people. Over the years I have learnt the triggers to my anger or rage and have become more adept at avoiding them, but this has led to me not being able to have a normal life in any sense. Truthfully though, if you cannot cope or deal with BPD.. Then yes.. Avoid it and avoid me, but don’t call my actions pathetic.. I have an illness.. One I’ve spent my entire adult life trying to deal with.. If you think it’s hard to be around someone with BPD.. understand just how hard it is to live with.
I’m glad you have that sort of self-control, which is especially hard as impulsivity is part of BPD.
This post deals with the problem of violent BPDs. I’m addressing this problem because it is a huge problem with many victims, and most media seem to avoid it. They hush it up exactly because of they will be accused of stigmatizing a vulnerable group. Well, beaten and manipulated partners is a vulnerable group too. As no one wants to talk about that side of the story I chose to do so. If the truth is stigmatizing then so be it.
I grant you full victim status
being a victim is no fun though, have you considered forgiveness?
victims of victims create more victims > break the cycle
i forgive my father for breaking my arm and dislocating my shoulder when i was 5 years old
i forgive my mother for killing my dog because i was late home
i forgive myself for being a victim
i forgive myself for all the halm i have done and will do
peace to all
I’m not personally a victim of this, but it’s a fair point. Forgiveness can have different outcomes. It can help two normal individuals in many situations, but any person with a personality disorder of any kind is unlikely to change their behavior because they’re forgiven. This is by definition people who have a rigid, inflexible way of thinking and behaving. I’m not saying it can’t happen because higly unlikely things happen. But it’s a bit like hoping to win the lottery while whoever is running the lottery is abusing you.
That said, forgiving and leaving can be helpful in moving on. This way you don’t have to take your victimhood with you. Anger will eat you up, that much I know from personal experience.
we are all victims of some wrong doing by someone at some point in our lives
folk with eupd/bpd have a high occurrence of childhood victim status
people are playing the victim Olympics with each other
no one is prepared to trade their victim status
everyone needs their turn in the spotlight
“you poor thing! it must of been so hard for you
society does not care about victims
there is no pay off for society
victims are weak, they are subordinate sycophants
perpetrators of crimes are more interesting to study
there is a pay off here, you can feel self righteous when
you condemn a perpetrator, you can feel Superior
punishing a perpetrator gives a much bigger pay off to society
than helping a victim feel sorry for themselves
i was more abused than you, etc
people Cary around a great bitterness it haunts them
they were abused and no one spoke out
no one defended them, in fact it was covered up
can you imagine how this twists people inside?
people with bpd are quite twisted inside they need
to forgive themselves for being victims and vulnerable
they need to try and realize that the people that hurt them
today are not the people that hurt them in the past
they need to acquire some self esteem from somewhere
many of them have no sense of identity at all its a very
weak place to be, they feel totally unaccepted by anyone
or constantly rejected
concentrate on nice thoughts rather than vengeful ones
victims of folk with bpd need to get over it, let it go
forgive yourself for being a victim
think happy thoughts
people with bdp are not deranged like psychopaths
but they can be dangerous as they can believe paranoid things
about peoples intentions they feel slighted all the time
when others would not feel slighted
the reason for this is folk with bpd have no self esteem
they are ridden with shame and self disgust for being weak victims that could not protect themselves when they were tortured as children
its very hard to teach these people to be nice in a cruel world
every day emotions are very difficult for these people they feel everything too strongly
when people upset them with words for them it is like being accidentally poked in the eye
being poked in the eye can cause feelings of anger and retaliation , but you must not retaliate as it was an accident
but what if you look up and you wipe the tears out of your eye and you notice the person who poked you in the eye is laughing at you?
it was still an accident but someone is laughing at your pain or misfortune
this is the mind set many of these folk are stuck in
but ill keep trying, its rewarding when these people stop hating and start forgiving themselves
Yeah it seems this article is full of. standard myths and general public labeling. First off you need to use the real term which is gender neutral: emotional dysregulation.
2nd: unless you are some sort of qualified clinician you should consider your words in descriptions and generalizations you are applying to popularions of sufferers.
If you met a terrible person who had emotional dysregultion and what not, it does not mean all men are like that. Its hard to say, but I agree that you need to revise the article for a mote credidle rational stance.
Hi, thanks for your comment.
As for being an expert or not – which I’m not – that is simply an appeal to authority. To me, the facts make the case, not the diploma.
The terminology changes with the DSM editions, that to me is another problem, not too concerned with that there though as this type of person seems to be a stable phenomenon.
As for being credible and rational or not, the article is based on actual research and if you can see any flawed logic I’d be happy to revise the article.
My ex is definitely Borderline it took a while to figure it out but by the grace of God I know now. He is very dramacidal. In the beginning he was the Perfect Guy and his attention to detail and romance rival romance novels. If you have ever seen the movie The Perfect guy then you know my ex boyfriend. The only exceptions were the fact that this Robert is not addicted to any substance abuse and he had a viable career and place of his own. He has children with women so that he can stay in the lives of the women so that if one of them breaks up with him then he has some where to go. He is always talking about violence and pretending to be in gang related activities when he is not affiliated at all. He is a brilliant pathological liar. He suffers imagined abandoment issues rooted in the bullying in his childhood because he is biracial Afro-Cuban and White. He tells his childhood stories as if he was the victim abuse. He even claim to have gone into foster care. He will even lie to his children often playing games with them mentally. He is clever very clever a woman has to protect herself by any means necessary. He is charming and like this article says they live in fantasy land. It is like a reel this ” perfect” life and wife. In his mind he is a real traditional man bringing home the bacon while you don’t have to work. He can’t keep a job and is behind on his childsupport all the time. I loved him because all women want a man who is romantic fearless protective and great in bed. Yet men like women are not perfect and even though I knew this I enjoyed this man for all the right reasons but I loved myself too much to ignore the realty that he was very dangerous. I am fortunate that he just walked away. I pray that his current victim will see that he is not who he is presenting himself to be.
I am recovering from an ex who is definitely sick this way. He fits this article to a T. He has moved onto his latest victim who he fathered a child with and did not know about. Women these me exisit. I would highly recommend you watch the movie The Perfect Guy. The only difference between my ex and this guy is that my ex could not keep a job and is a heroin addict a highly functional one and that took me a while to figure out as well. He is a master liar I am relieved that he began to devalue me and that I no longer met his fantasy. He tends to be on the dramatic side when he needs attention to reassure him that you are still bamboozled or fears that you will leave him. He is a people pleaser to a fault for anyone who might reject him. His insecurities steam from not being ” Black enough” he often gravitated towards inner city African Blacks because he wanted to fit in as a child who was born biracial and was bullied from it. He has had several broken relationships because he fears abandoment so badly that he will threaten suicide or do something to get attention so that you won’t leave. I spent countless nights concerned about thing that never even happen to him. He moves from women to women and with each one he never talks about his role in the demise of the relationship because in his mind he is the The Perfect Guy”
Just got a diagnosis of BPD. Was looking on the internet for help and hope. Instead, I found this. You should take it down. You are doing much more harm than good.
Thanks for your comment. I’ve got great response from those who have been subjected to this abuse though, so I won’t take it down. Too many people are silent on this issue. I’m not going to be one of them.
I am also very grateful for this blog. Not much out of the truth out there. Too much silence that keeps the victimes of bpd, as me, in pain and hopelessness, thinking that I am the weirdo while my bpd abusers do fine.
I hope the bpd will become more known, from the point of how the abuse effect their victimes, in a similar way as the npd Cluster B disorder.
On the other hand, there shall not be so many people with bpd. Often, they are misdiagnosed. Chances are that some health care professional who would want to make his life easy, he would diagnose me with bpd instead of with PTDS. This makes more hurt than good, because it does not help but stigmatise.
The will is the difference. If you have a good will and had it most of your life and did not abuse others, you might not be have the bpd. Just my opinion. Having blocked emotions or too heavy emotions from past does not make anybody an abuser.
But, I am not an “expert”.
Great blog. Thanks a lot for this.
I have currently figured out that not only the women in my family had/were bpd, but also my absent father. In my adult age, strange men “got me” : the ex (bpd, big mind manipulator, literally an emotional criminal, no sex, but he damaged me to the extend of my own serious physical sickness while I tried to escape him). The supervisor at job/educaton, the psychotherapist (the most sad things), and lately, years ago: a guy that could have become my next bf, but maybe I was too poor or not eligible for him, and I had some knowledge about cluster B and of a good-relationational guy. It is soo much about bpd. I understand that it is not me, it is them. It is revolutionary. Common traits they had in common:
critisism, control, sarcasm (esp. they made me “a stupid woman who shall have no money, no job, no independance, no fame”), emotional violance (overt or covert), harsh emotions when things don´t go their way (at the beginning of the “honeymoon phase, they lure in, seduce, changed their voice to be nice, kind, praised my intelligence…..but not only the mental praising as with narcissist, but “true” emotional expression).
Getting into my body without any touch (through the introjection mechanism, it was sometimes like having sex with me…or sending some evil signals into my body).
They all wished me bad, to fail, to suffer, not to be happy and thriving (she will be sorry). They were women haters.
They had some connection with suicide. One studied suicide (and was claiming assisted suicide for everybody -in order to stop suffering of people), also he told me that some people kill themselves after falling in love when it does not work (watching my reaction….and how it works on me, whether I will pine after him forever and feel guilty), another one told me how victimised he was by his ex-gf, so much that he wanted to commit a suicide (I was sorry for him !). The therapist made an effort to literally persuade me that “I was suicidal”. Shiddy guy. I saw other women coming out of this office: all destroyed. Nobody spoke about what happened inside, even when I try to connect them as victims to receive financial recompensation. Maybe the fear is too big.
He protected all the other misuser guys in my life. It took me a long time to get it. Some of those guys knew each other. They supported themselves in a way (e.g. my supervisor told me about the bpd ex: he is a good guy. You should stay with him). The therapist said “we are not going to talk about your ex, but about your mother” and your supervisor is just strange, you do provoke him by your “darkness”. It was far, far more way than strange.
It seems that the ex-gf of the ex ended up either in psychotherapy or apparently one in the hospital with a long-term disease. I did not know that time, of course. He kept it secret. Lies and inscenations to keep it secret. Using the “help” of other people (implicated, often without their knowledge) to create an inscenation of “genuiity and truth” for me.
All of those guys kept somehow his true life in secret.
Usually, with ex, no sex, he was fine with it. Often because I tried to escape the relationship -he was ok to abuse my emotions, my mind, in some non-physical realm my body.
Once, I actually perceived that “my body not good enough for him”, he did not like me. I thought “how could a guy be with a woman he does not feel sexual attraction for” ? Is he a gay ?
I am persuated that the bpd ex had stolen my photos from childhood. He was the only he knew about them -most of them had gone. I suspect him to make some “energetical” pulling at me from far.
None of those people were “naive”, sweet guys. They were pretty conscious, pretty intelligent. They pretended care, empathy.
They found me (and lured me in, inclusive the psychotherapist, the supervisor) when bad things happened in my life and I was emotionally down (death in family usually).
They had a good smell for people in trouble. They smelled that I wear my heart on sleaves.
All of them were ambivalent. Treated me in the skillful “hot and cold” treatment. It was difficult to run away. I had feelings of guilt why to be nasty or leave such “good people” who have “just” bad moods sometimes. It was not sometimes. It was actually always.
All of them kept a “body image of a don juan, Casanova”…even if it was subtle and they did not look good, they made themselves looking good (as the self-centered women do).
All of them had abandonned me (ignored, pushed me away -often subtle ways, it took time until I got it). Then, they contacted me and did as “nothing happened”. The biggest pattern with my father who was not present in my life. I tried to know him, often he promised something to call me, see me, but never did. Untill I let him go. In this moment, he started to contact me, sometimes. When I started to believe that I can have a father, or at least meet him and tell him how he fucked up my life or hear something about his ancestors,
he disappeared again. I feel often guilty for throwing him out of my life, because he is my father -fathers are to be respected.
The information on bpd make sense why he is doing it, and how dangerous he is.
All surrounded by beautiful women/or at least women who styled themselves (not my case -thus I ended up being critised by the psychoterapist for my look: this is when I got out). The more power the guy had, the more “women-body-spiritual vaginas he was”. They sucked the life energy.
They were jealous, envious (but I did not get this so well to feel)- as, they often were intelligent. They knew how to seduce me into their abusive power, and certain comments (or jealousy) would not go for me. Thus, they used other tricks, those that worked for me.
I bet that used other tricks with other women.
All claimed himself to be spirtual guys, seeking the truth, God.
The next moments, they came to kill me and steal, destroy my life (symbolically, so far, luckily).
All of them misused some money resources. My father does not pay taxes and keep his financial activities secret (even he is not rich), ex -not sure, his “career is awaiting him”. The psychotherapist probably received money from clients -outside the realm of health insurance, which is illegal (he asked me at the beginning for the same and I refused,but most other clients did not -based on my research). This money had never been taxed.
All of them were not good at working, at his job (this is why they cheated and created an image to “be someone”). They used women to help them “climb up” in their career. My supervisor married several times: and he had stolen the knowledge of his previous wife to put it as “his idea”. He also used my name for some of his money-supplies. I had no idea about it. Unfortunately, the evidence has disappeared so far.
All of those guys like luxury (or they would like to), but perhaps in a different way than narcissistic people. They love to enjoy, enjoy the possibilities, even though they might not be using them.
Most of those guys lie: ex -pathological lier. I caught him through his e-mails (good thing to do with cluster b, have no pardon of them and no guilt for oneself). Father -too, lier (he lied he did not receive my e-mails, did not tell me we will have an appoitment, and I was waiting and many things). Psychotherapeut told many times he has “so much work” and no time for my next sessions (I guess he was only manipulating me into insecurity), but then, I caught him leaving his office several hours before he had to. I guess he has not many clients, after all.
Supervisor lied me about some other “collegues” who shall not have time to do this work (and many others lies I have no idea about), the next minute another old colleague came in and said “thank you so much for taking this work for free, the one designed (and paid) is on journey abroad).
I did not get so far to be physically beaten, but I felt one from the ex his grasping on me when I wanted to leave -he travelled hundreds of miles to invade me with his emotions in the car of his parents. I felt that if I get into his car, he might kill me or do something to me. Such a violance it was, his fear of abandonment. Only the bpd cluster B I met, were ambitious guys. If they killed me or assaulted me, they would end up in jail. They did not want to ruin their career…(they were never concerned about me. after all, my emotional, sickness, financial and social suffer is far better for them: when I were death, I would not suffer -and they know it very well).
None of the bpd wanted to commit a suicide or did any attempt. They only threatened to guilt. They want to continue to make people suffer.
I undertand that those people who had been diagnosed with bpd and hurt themselves, might not be perhaps that jerks who throw all their stuff on others (as it was done to me). They need help.
My bpd mother makes some changes. She will have to recompensate me as her victime.
So different to those monster-guys. I can see the difference.
My history with bpd-man is very long.
I will not trust their “victime” stories anymore.
The ex is afraid of me. Good for him. The moment I find him, now, it will be me who turns on the revange/recompensation. The same for those other guys.
Hi, thanks for commenting. Sorry for not approving it earlier, been busy. And feel free to browse the other comments. By now, there is probably more interesting content there than in the original post.
Thanks for your comment : )
Seems you had a series of bad encounters with these people. While most BPDs are relatively benign, the potential for emotional abuse is always a factor. Although I don’t think they hate woman. My guess is that they are confused about their sexuality and hate themselves. It’s sometimes hard to believe they’re not psychopaths, when they play all these games, but a true psychopath is much more about casual sex and then move on. They do feel intensely, too much perhaps, and they end up hurting people because that’s the only way the can keep their emotions under control.
I hope you can find other people to connect with, now that you know the red flags. The problem is that when you want a strong emotional connection you’ll attract them, as they see you as easy prey. It’s a tricky situation. It requires patience. And I think discussing your relationship with friends, maybe female friends, would give some perspective too.
This article you wrote it absolutely true! I was a victim of a violent borderline/sociopathic male. He verbally, mentally, emotionally and physically abused me. He pretended to be a good moral man. He hid behind religion . He was a priest at one time. He was very manipulative but acted innocent, sweet, shy and awkward . These men know exactly what they are doing. Not every borderline acts in the same way. But they all know what they do. It is definitely disgusting and vile. They should be exposed for the scum that they are. I would feel sorry and be more compassionate but they don’t care what they, as long as they are getting their needs met. They are completely self absorbed and self centered.
Thanks for your comment.
Not all are like that though, that’s important to remember, but enough to proceed with caution. Like I’ve said earlier here, I do feel sorry for them, but their misery shouldn’t excuse their behavior. And I fully understand how victims may lose empathy for the people who abuse them. I’d probably do that too.
Have you considered that instead of drawing attention to a problem i.e. the alleged abnormal rate of violence perpetrated by male BPD sufferers on their female partners – your further stigmatisation of the condition forces sufferers to ‘go to ground’, making them less likely to disclose it to future partners and thus put those future partners at higher risk of violence?. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.
This is what happens when unqualified quacks offer diagnoses and solutions on the internet. If you genuinely feel you have something to offer on this subject matter; study the subject and get your qualification.
Thanks for your comment.
I think “alleged” would be more appropriate if I didn’t bring any evidence, which I did. The idea that my “stigmatisation” drives them underground is flawed because they are already under the radar and that’s just the problem I’m addressing here. I haven’t offered any diagnoses, merely reviewed some of the research. I have offered some advice in the comment section though, and in summary it amounts to approaching these men with caution, and don’t stay in an abusive relationship. I think that makes perfect sense.
If you were in a room with Hitler how would you feel?
If you caught your best friend cheating with your wife?
a crime of passion perhaps
Borderlines have no ability to emotionally regulate themselves
This means when you upset them they hate you in those moments the same way that you would perhaps hate Hitler
They experience mental pain from triggered responses just like Ptsd
they are ridden with low self esteem and self loathing, it’s considered to be one of the most unpleasant mental illness to experience with a suicide rate of 1in10
you do not need to feel sorry for Borderlines, they feel sorry enough for themselves
Borderlines hurt other people to stop the emotional/mental pain inside themselves
Similar to an eye for an eye, but instead when you stab a borderline in the eye and they stab you back in both your eyes, the borderline gets his vision back,
Borderlines are obsessed with keeping score making sure if any one slights them they get revenge this is the only way they can protect their very delicate self esteem and self image
you would not wish borderline personality disorder on your worst enemy it’s a hell-ish place to be
If a guy hits me, I don’t care if he has BPD or not. What are you doing when you disclose to a partner you have BPD? What are you saying really? “I’m going to subject you to some crazy, abusive shit”? If it’s not going to be an issue then why bring it up?
As a male with Borderline Personality Disorder your article is more fiction than fact. I would never hurt someone, we borderlines don’t externalise pain but internalise. What troubles me about your article is that it promotes isolating men with the illness from seeking help. The stigma associated with BPD is bad enough all your doing is sending men like me to our graves sooner . Please go learn more about psychology and maybe try not to be so black and white with things.
My dad is a male with BPD and he might also think he would never hurt someone but he has. He hurt his family by causing instability, financially and otherwise. He hurt his kids with his lack of reliability and respect for parent child boundaries, failure to provide a safe environment, and provide basic resources. He hurt his spouse in much the same way. He hurt his employees by being an unreliable boss causing the business to fail and his employees to lose their source of income. He hurt his girlfriend by psychologically terrorizing her, harassing and stalking her when she tried to leave. He hurt those he felt wronged him by badmouthing them and threatening lawsuits, even when the rift was caused ny his behavior.
You don’t have to hit someone to hurt them.
A very interesting evaluation, thank you for the links to real papers also. Having recently been diagnosed borderline they also gave me AsPD traits due to partner violence in the past but as I suspected gender bias played a part.
I’m past the stage of constant victimhood but I’d like to point out that we’re an awful lot less premeditated than a narc or AsPD abuser. There is also a lot more hope for us in treatment as long as one is committed to it (which I am).
Call a borderline evil they’ll tel you they’re misunderstood.
Glad to hear that you’re on the right track. I agree about the distinction you make. BPDs are often more tragic and less callous than people in the anti-social cluster.
I’ve just been diagnosed with BPD and must say that you’ve been rather irresponsible with this article. I’ve been googling my illness to try and find help and support. You are effectively demonising and categegorising people with mental health issues. Try to be more sensitive, people with BPD are fragile and already feel like they are monsters. You appear to be endorsing this view. Predator? Emo? Pop lyrics as evidence?Grow up. A lot of BDP have suicidal tendencies and reading this ‘article’ may well have triggered someone to commit suicide. Be more responsible please. Either amend this to a more balanced and less prejudiced view of the mental health issue you are discussing or take it down please.
Kind regards
Hi there,
I think your comment illustrates the problem I’m trying to address. Using sensitivity to manipulate others is how the silence around BPD violence is maintained – be nice or I’ll kill myself and it will be your fault. Meanwhile they vicimize other people. That said, BPDs really are sensitive and I’m not trying to demonize them. But I can’t play along with their manipulations either. It’s a tricky situation, but I think an open discussion is the best way to deal with it.
I’ve just been diagnosed with BPD and am horrified by your irresponsible ‘reporting’. I’ve been Googling my illness to try and find help and support. You are demonising and categegorising people with mental health issues. People with BPD are indeed fragile. We are also as capable of being victims as much as non BDP people. We are well aware of the pain and damage we can cause, however we are also in pain and damaged ourselves, we are also MENTALLY ILL. Sorry for the capitals but a lot of the comments on here appear to be unable to accept this. This is not to dismiss the damage to the victims but BDP damage themselves too when they damage you. Ultimately you can escape us somehow but we can never escape ourselves.
For this reason a lot of BDPs have suicidal tendencies and reading this ‘article’ may well have triggered someone to commit suicide.
I’ve been victim to domestic violence and am also a BDP. What statistics do you have for nonviolent BPDs? Or statistics on violence against people with BDP? There is more than type of BDP but you have not represented them here. You just labelled some of the destructive symptoms of BDP. You mention nothing of the self-destructive symptoms.
No one is either completely faultless or entirely worthy of blame in any situation. Every person can only take responsibility for themselves and their own actions.
Out of interest, what else are you doing to combat domestic violence? Something more tangible and practical than this blog I hope?Where are the links on this article to help victims of domestic violence? This doesn’t offer them any practical advice, where to get help to escape domestic violence, support available, how to help de-escalate a BDP when they’ve been triggered even? That would actually be beneficial to both ‘victim’ and BDP or is that not allowed. Let’s not pretend you wrote this to help the victims of domestic violence. We don’t need statistics and sensationalism, we need practical actual help. … If would like to educate yourself on BDP, here is a very good place to start.
Thank you
http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/#.WOVYfTx4WEc
Thanks,
The intention with my post was simply to point out a problem that is often hushed up. I don’t have the time or resources to do all the other things you request. But judging from the many comments here, I think it has been helpful to some victims of BPD violence, and maybe some BPDs too, not all their comments have been negative.
Everytime there is an article about BPD that speaks to the experiences of “nons”ike clockwork, in a completely predictable fashion someone with BPD is offended.
Good. You should be. Because the behavior of many of those with BPD is offensive. So stop it.
Many of you will scream that you have empathy, and that, in fact, you are very caring, empathetic people. But this is actually irrelevant when your actions are destructive and abusive.
The reason “nons” ever bring up empathy is because you are not expressing it when you are destroying them.
When you are cheating on your partner, trying to destroy a coworker’s reputation, blaming someone for something absolutely immoral and unethical that you did, being emotionally or physically abusive to your innocent children, no one cares if deep down inside you have empathy because you have made it irrelevant. Some serial killers kill so they can feel emotions. In that moment, they have empathy for their victim but it’s irrelevant because the empathy is misappropriated and is having the opposite effect that it should.
Empathy is supposed to stop you from doing bad things to other people. If it doesn’t, then it’s value is diminished.
Draw boundaries for yourself. Make a list of bad things you have done and turn that in to a list of things you will refuse to do in the future. Become the person who doesn’t do those things because that’s all anyone ever cares about.
Emos are subject to mass violence in Mexico, and in Iraq this only adds to justify unwarranted hate, fear, and suspicion.
This is immature bullying poorly disguised as an Academic work when in reality it is far from being reflective of objective reality.
Hi John,
This critique is hard to respond to since it boils down to “this is bad” without addressing the content. As for the situation in Mexico and Iraq, this is not a good reason to ignore the problem presented here, even in those countries.